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How HD-DVD Could Win the Format War

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I've been following the format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray Disc since the days when each was on the drawing board. For the record, I'm not choosing sides in this debate, nor am I recommending that anyone buy into either option. Each format brings HD quality movies and advanced playback features to the table. In my mind, that makes them both good. However, mass adoption of either simply won't happen until one of two things occurs:

  1. One camp drops out of the race.

  2. The stalemate draws on long enough that the ability to play back both formats is included in every playback device. Simply put; a tie. While a handful of hardware makers not entrenched in one camp or another have done this (namely LGs Super Blu players... "Super" meaning "super expensive"), the Toshiba's and Sony's of the world don't seem likely to build in support for their rivals even though it could finally advance adoption.

So that leaves the folks these products are built for, me and you, watching our favorite prime time shows in HD, but enjoying our favorite summer blockbusters in the "glory" that is up-converted standard definition. I'm tired of DVD. I WANT the better picture and advanced features each HD format brings to the table, but I NEED resolution that I won't be buying into the next Betamax.

If I had to back a format, I'd pick the one that's got the best chance to win in the short term (as I've said, I'm tired of waiting). To me, it looks like HD-DVD has a better chance nailing a short-term victory, but not unless the HD-DVD camp starts utilizing some of the advantages that have been on their side from the beginning.

How HD-DVD Could Win the Format War

For the record (again) I'm not picking sides. I (like most people) really don't care which format becomes the next-gen standard, as long as there is ONE type of disc that works in my PC, car, and standalone player. If the HD-DVD folks are listening, here's 5 things you can do to knock out Blu-Ray for good so we can all finally start enjoying movies on HD:

1. Take advantage of HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc Backwards Compatibility

I want a single HD format, but I'm even more selfish than that. I've got a million DVD players, and I kind of want to buy one disc that plays in everything. HD-DVD provides that! The ability to create HD-DVD+DVD Combo Discs is a huge advantage HD-DVD has for a short-term win. Unfortunately, the backwards compatibility goodness HD-DVD provides isn't being utilized.

Studios exclusive to HD-DVD should be required to release films in HD-DVD+DVD Combo Discs ONLY. Forget the standard DVD release and provide one SKU for retailers to stock. Even if we're watching it on our regular DVD player we HAVE the HD-DVD version, too. And the more HD-DVD discs we acquire, the more we'll want to buy a HD-DVD player.

PLUS, with only one SKU, retailers that have sided up on the Blu-Ray exclusive bandwagon have no choice but to stock the HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc. It's that, or not carry the movie at all and lose sales.

For the consumers, HD-DVD+DVD Combo Discs are a bigger win. I have the flexibility to enjoy the film in HD on my home system, but also bring the same disc along in the car to play for the kids on the cheap-o portable DVD player. It's more convenient! It's the best of both worlds! We CAN have our cake and eat it, too!

2. Take Advantage of the Cost Savings While it Lasts

Why, oh why, is the same movie twice as expensive on HD-DVD than it is on regular DVD? One of the advantages HD-DVD claimed was that existing DVD productions lines can be cheaply converted to produce HD-DVD... so that can't be it. Don't studios master their work in HD, then convert it to standard def for DVD already? If so, then that can't be it either. Why the HUGE price premium?

Okay, it's business and you're there to make money. I get it. However, the sheer desire to roll in consumer's dough is a bit of a turn off for some, and is giving people enough reason to ignore the benefits these next-gen formats provide.

"It's another money grab by the big companies," says Daniel Malen, self-proclaimed TV addict and founder of the popular TV blog theTVaddict.com. "Sony, Toshiba and whomever else wants to further gouge consumers, get us to throw away our perfectly good DVD players and the thousands I've spent on TV on DVD... only to go out and buy the exact same stuff on the new High Def Version."

Daniel is not the only one who feels this way. The battle between companies has consumers caught in the crossfire, and while choice is typically a good thing for shoppers, this war is being waged with the hard earned cash of the typical consumer on the line.

HD-DVD has the opportunity to strike a one-two punch in favor of the we consumers, but the opportunity to be the price hero is diminishing daily. My advice: sell everything as a HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc and sell it for the SAME price you would for regular DVD. Yes, you won't make as much money, but forego the short-term nickel and diming and hold out for the cash-cow of becoming the next-gen standard. You'll be rolling in it by then and still giving consumers a fair deal.

I (a cheapskate consumer) love the fact that HD-DVD players are relatively affordable. $200-$400 for a fully functional HD-DVD player isn't the problem. The fact of the matter is that DVD looks pretty darn good on an HDTV, and I can't justify the additional ten to fifteen bucks for the HD version, particularly if that disc doesn't work in every player I have.

Blu-Ray is getting cheaper. The what was once ungodly expensive Playstation 3 is getting more attractive with lower priced options. Standalone Blu-Ray players are not "wallet-crushing" anymore. However, there's still a ways for them to go to hit the ultra-low hardware prices of HD-DVD, and the opportunity to win the war on price is fading.

3. Get Hardware Prices Even Lower, and Enough with the 1080i Only Players

As I mentioned above, HD-DVD is relatively affordable, but it could be better. I don't expect to see $29 cheap-o HD-DVD players anytime soon, but it's high time we saw some players at the $99 range that aren't Black Friday limited closeout specials. And with Sony's latest $399 PS3 SKU, it's high time we saw that XBOX 360 HD-DVD add-on get a big price drop.

Then there's the "on paper perspective." I know both formats are capable of offering razor sharp 1080p images, but only some HD-DVD models offer that level of output. To most, 1080i and 1080p won't look any different, but it sure does make a difference on paper. Let's see 1080i go away for good and get a few $99 to $199 standalone 1080p HD-DVD players out there (you listening Toshiba?). You may not make money in the short term, but think of how much money you'll make if Blu-Ray becomes the next standard? I'll help you visualize: $0

4. Forget Crazy DRM

People want to rip a movie to their hard drive, transcode it, and load it onto their iPod or other portable player. From my research, Blu-Ray's DRM is stricter than HD-DVD, but let's make it so folks can easily move this glorious content around from device to device without hacks, headaches, or illegal software.

Don't want to allow folks to encode a movie in HD? Fine, make it easy for folks to encode a standard def version for portable digital devices, reserving HD only playback from the disc itself. You know what!? If it's all HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc, there's already a standard def version ready to go.

5. Take a dominant position in the PC market.

Vista plays nice with HD-DVD, now let's just get some drives out there that are affordable. Let's also start to see some dual and triple layer writable HD-DVD discs for sale.

The maximum storage space differences between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are nil if 51GB triple layer HD-DVDs truly are in the pipeline. However, I'm more interested in seeing super-affordable 15GB and 30GB discs on my retailer's shelf in the short term. A single 25GB BD-R disc (at the time this was written) couldn't be found for less than $10 (a piece). However, I couldn't find a writable HD-DVD disc at all! Let's see some 10 packs of blank HD-DVD-Rs for a few bucks per disc and then we're talking.

HD For Everyone... Eventually

Movies in HD quality are something that most people want, but until this "VHS vs. Betamax - Round 2" is over, most consumers will sit comfortable with their regular DVD players. Let's face it, there's so little to differentiate the two formats, and so much competition from the current standard that getting folks to buy in will take lower prices and more incentive than ever. With HD-DVD's so far unplayed trump cards like backwards compatibility and lower priced hardware, they're in the best position to end the stalemate quickly. HD-DVD, can we finally see all your cards?

What do you think HD-DVD could do to win the war? Think Blu-Ray is the faster track to a single standard? Think both formats could co-exist peacefully? Post your thoughts below.

Read More In: Video Playback / Recording Devices

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Comments 1-25 of 43 | Latest Comment | 1 2 Next »

November 29, 2007 2:59 PM

It is sounding like the old beta to VHS war. I for the longest time stuck with the beta because the picture simply looked better. I have seen no difference between these two rival formats or any better features one has over the other unless I am missing something here. I have seen in some movie releases though that are coming out, a regular DVD as well as a copy of the disc in HD format. There are not many that are doing this as of yet, but I am wondering if the distributors will simply include both the Blu-Ray as well as the HD format in movies someday. If I were the manufacturers of these products, I would burn a little midnight oil and decide once and for all as I see in my lifetime the doom of DVDs as the flash memory is looking pretty well these days with the amount of memory they can hold. I see that one day movies will come of a memory flash card or a flash stick.  Heck, look at the availability now to download movies. Maybe I am looking to far ahead?

"Those who do not know their opponet's arguments, do not completely understand their own".

November 29, 2007 7:05 PM

I don't know were you get your facts but they are FUD.Your sort of Pro HD-DVD spinning makes it more difficult for consumers.

If you really want to help you readers learn the differences between HD-DVD and Blu-ray clink on link below.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

November 29, 2007 7:31 PM

Sling,

You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol.  The hypocrisy!  You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray. 

November 29, 2007 7:41 PM

Memorex said: Sling, You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol.  The hypocrisy!  You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray. 

A neutral site hmm is there such a site....No

You want true Blu-ray facts go to link I posted and learn them with NO FUD .

November 29, 2007 7:59 PM

sling said:
Memorex said: Sling, You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol. The hypocrisy! You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray.
A neutral site hmm is there such a site....No You want true Blu-ray facts go to link I posted and learn them with NO FUD .

No, going to a site dedicated to Blu-ray is not getting all the facts. You just said it yourself that there are no neutral sites. So, since you support Blu-ray you direct everyone to a bias site.

Hopefully the educated people who read these replies will see through your own bias and look for the real facts with some dedicated research and not one sided propaganda.

November 29, 2007 8:21 PM

Memorex said:
sling said:
Memorex said: Sling, You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol. The hypocrisy! You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray.
A neutral site hmm is there such a site....No You want true Blu-ray facts go to link I posted and learn them with NO FUD .
No, going to a site dedicated to Blu-ray is not getting all the facts. You just said it yourself that there are no neutral sites. So, since you support Blu-ray you direct everyone to a bias site. Hopefully the educated people who read these replies will see through your own bias and look for the real facts with some dedicated research and not one sided propaganda.

Mem, you asked me why I didn't post link to neutral site....you know darn well there are none to be had so nice try.If you want to learn about Blu-ray and HD-DVD facts ,pro's and con's  give  blu-ray.com a view.

November 29, 2007 8:25 PM

Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.  

Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    

November 29, 2007 8:38 PM

Memorex said: Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.   Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    
Memorex likes to spread FUD to...Very sad Very sad.

November 29, 2007 8:38 PM

sling said:
Memorex said: Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.   Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    
Memorex likes to spread FUD to...Very sad Very sad.

Wow, I'm sorry to say but your view and post is very sad, very sad indeed. 

November 29, 2007 8:54 PM

Memorex said:
sling said:
Memorex said: Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.   Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    
Memorex likes to spread FUD to...Very sad Very sad.
Wow, I'm sorry to say but your view and post is very sad, very sad indeed. 
Your misinformation about blu-ray.com says it all...You my friend take the cake for sad.

November 29, 2007 9:01 PM

Fellas, Lets play nice now.  There are all sorts of sites out there to compare Blu-ray and HD-DVD. But I would have to agree, a site that talks only about Blu-ray is not going to give all the facts. They will give the good about their product, not the bad. Right now, can you really tell the picture quality difference? If someone hid the two players and had the same TV set, and played one beside the other, could you pick out the HD vs the Blu-ray?

"Those who do not know their opponet's arguments, do not completely understand their own".

November 29, 2007 9:19 PM

Larry Dillon said: Fellas, Lets play nice now.  There are all sorts of sites out there to compare Blu-ray and HD-DVD. But I would have to agree, a site that talks only about Blu-ray is not going to give all the facts. They will give the good about their product, not the bad. Right now, can you really tell the picture quality difference? If someone hid the two players and had the same TV set, and played on beside the other, could you pick out the HD vs the Blu-ray?

Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.  

I can tell you from experience that both formats offer great picture quality.  It would be hard to choose one over the other as the winner, they are both very similar.

Like you said, I can bet that if you hid both players and played a movie like a Paramount title (which used different encodes for each format) that you would be hard pressed to see a difference or pick which is which.  

November 29, 2007 9:30 PM

Larry Dillon said: Fellas, Lets play nice now.  There are all sorts of sites out there to compare Blu-ray and HD-DVD. But I would have to agree, a site that talks only about Blu-ray is not going to give all the facts. They will give the good about their product, not the bad. Right now, can you really tell the picture quality difference? If someone hid the two players and had the same TV set, and played on beside the other, could you pick out the HD vs the Blu-ray?

That's why I recommend Blu-ray.com .It does support BR of course but gives truth, good and bad about both formats.The mods do a fantastic job making sure misinformation is not spread around confusing consumers.

 I will leave it at that.

Phil C                                               

November 29, 2007 10:01 PM

Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.    

Thanks Mem for your post above.

You feel the Article to be Pro HD-DVD and think I was trying to push "the opposite viewpoint" which would be Pro blu-ray lol

I posted link to Blu-ray.com that supports blu-ray but gives facts,Good and bad about both formats.You found that to be a threat then dropped Fud

Mem it was good chatting with you.

Phil C

November 29, 2007 10:08 PM

Mem, I do see your point. Lets see what the author of this article has to say about this. And he knows what he is talking about. Not that I am saying you don't, not by all means.

"Those who do not know their opponet's arguments, do not completely understand their own".

November 29, 2007 10:12 PM

sling said:
Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.    
Thanks Mem for your post above. You feel the Article to be Pro HD-DVD and think I was trying to push "the opposite viewpoint" which would be Pro blu-ray lol I posted link to Blu-ray.com that supports blu-ray but gives facts,Good and bad about both formats.You found that to be a threat then dropped Fud Mem it was good chatting with you. Phil C

Forgive me mods for responding to this post, but I have to.  

I've been to bluray.com and the facts you say they give are misleading.  They purposely leave out information on the HD DVD side and try to present Blu-ray in the best possible light. 

I will leave it at that, I think everyone reading knows where your coming from Sling...so sorry to the Mods for continuing the bickering, I will stop now.  

November 29, 2007 10:17 PM

If you have a point to make, please, continue, just play nice. No bashing is necessary to get your point across. Techlore.com is an easy going community that hopes the visitors and or members have the ability to communicate between each other and give each others information and share ideas. If anyone can find a neutral site, by all means lets see it and compare together. As Matt stated in his article, it will come down to the most popular equipment or until someone drops out. The cost of these buggers are way out of reach for most Home video enthusiast I think, but this will change when one brand becomes more popular I think.

"Those who do not know their opponet's arguments, do not completely understand their own".

November 29, 2007 10:31 PM

Memorex said:
Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.     
  

 Sling is playing nice.

Memorex the artical is Pro Fud for HD-DVD and you support it as seen in your post above.You tried to hide your support for HD-DVD while you insulted link I provied that gives BR and HD-DVD facts Pro's and con's.

Phil C

November 29, 2007 10:56 PM

sling said:
Memorex said:
Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.     
  
 Sling is playing nice. Memorex the artical is Pro Fud for HD-DVD and you support it as seen in your post above.You tried to hide your support for HD-DVD while you insulted link I provied that gives BR and HD-DVD facts Pro's and con's. Phil C

Sling, so now I'm pro HD DVD because I think bluray.com is bias and doesn't present all the facts? That's a bit absurd I think.  I mean, a site that is named after a format is going to be bias that is why I don't suggest someone going there for a fair and neutral look at both formats. 

Now, I own both formats, they both have their pros and cons.  That is why I suggest anyone who is interested in High Def to go to a neutral site such as highdefdigest, or do a search on the merits of both formats.  But with any research, remember to take some things with a grain of salt as there are many people who like to spread..."FUD."  

I think someone who buys into either format is going to enjoy it as both offer pristine picture and audio quality.  My only problem with Blu-ray is not having a full specification out of the gate, this profile mess just causes confusion among consumers and is not consumer friendly at all.  That is one of the good things about HD DVD, they had a complete product from the beginning.  

November 29, 2007 11:20 PM

Memorex said:
sling said:
Memorex said:
Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.     
  
 Sling is playing nice. Memorex the artical is Pro Fud for HD-DVD and you support it as seen in your post above.You tried to hide your support for HD-DVD while you insulted link I provied that gives BR and HD-DVD facts Pro's and con's. Phil C
Sling, so now I'm pro HD DVD because I think bluray.com is bias and doesn't present all the facts? That's a bit absurd I think.  I mean, a site that is named after a format is going to be bias that is why I don't suggest someone going there for a fair and neutral look at both formats.  Now, I own both formats, they both have their pros and cons.  That is why I suggest anyone who is interested in High Def to go to a neutral site such as highdefdigest, or do a search on the merits of both formats.  But with any research, remember to take some things with a grain of salt as there are many people who like to spread..."FUD."   I think someone who buys into either format is going to enjoy it as both offer pristine picture and audio quality.  My only problem with Blu-ray is not having a full specification out of the gate, this profile mess just causes confusion among consumers and is not consumer friendly at all.  That is one of the good things about HD DVD, they had a complete product from the beginning.  

Memorex said:   I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint...end quote

I said the article is Fud which you disagree with.Then I post link to site that has the name"Blu-ray" in it so you you tell onlookers the wont get facts from link....or as you say above "the opposite viewpoint" hmm....lets leave it at that.

Great places to get facts,

http://www.highdefdigest.com/

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

 Enjoy

Phil C

November 29, 2007 11:28 PM

That's the point here! Different viewpoints, different opinions.  I will now step in between you two and ask, why don't each of you write a small review on what you believe or like about each format and post it here or submit to the editor as an article? Or maybe start a blog. We have loads of great blogs here started from discussions from these threads. Your blog would be a great focal point to get your opinion out there as well as getting responses from many of our members.

"Those who do not know their opponet's arguments, do not completely understand their own".

November 29, 2007 11:30 PM

sling said:
 
Memorex said:   I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint...end quote I said the article is Fud which you disagree with.Then I post link to site that has the name"Blu-ray" in it so you you tell onlookers the wont get facts from link....or as you say above "the opposite viewpoint" hmm....lets leave it at that. Great places to get facts, http://www.highdefdigest.com/ http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24  Enjoy Phil C

No, you misunderstood me.  I never said I disagreed with you calling the article FUD.  What I disagreed with was you saying the article is FUD and then giving a site that is the opposite of what this article was and saying it is fair and balanced.  You basically just gave a link to the opposite viewpoint which would just be FUD from the opposite side.  Hopefully I'm making myself clear here.  

Now I don't agree with everything in the article, there were some good points made and some that I don't necessarily agree with.  Either way, Sling, what I'm trying to say is that you aren't going to get all the facts from any place that is bias to one format or the other.  Bluray.com is exactly that, a site about Blu-ray.  They aren't going to give all the facts and will be bias toward Blu-ray since that is what that site is all about.  

So, all in all, this is why I suggest a neutral site for people to see the pros or cons of both formats.   

November 29, 2007 11:33 PM

Larry Dillon said: That's the point here! Different viewpoints, different opinions.  I will now step in between you two and ask, why don't each of you write a small review on what you believe or like about each format and post it here or submit to the editor as an article? Or maybe start a blog. We have loads of great blogs here started from discussions from these threads. Your blog would be a great focal point to get your opinion out there as well as getting responses from many of our members.

That sounds like a good idea.  I will have to think about that.  Thank you for the suggestion.  It could be a good way to try and bring a neutral viewpoint of both formats and what each offers.  

November 29, 2007 11:42 PM

Ok Memorex, instead of trying to answer and arguing your post PROVE them, That is the best way as long as you do reference or cite where you got the info from. Thanks for listening.

"Those who do not know their opponet's arguments, do not completely understand their own".

November 30, 2007 12:09 AM

Memorex said:
sling said:
Memorex said:   I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint...end quote I said the article is Fud which you disagree with.Then I post link to site that has the name"Blu-ray" in it so you you tell onlookers the wont get facts from link....or as you say above "the opposite viewpoint" hmm....lets leave it at that. Great places to get facts, http://www.highdefdigest.com/ http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24  Enjoy Phil C
No, you misunderstood me.  I never said I disagreed with you calling the article FUD.  What I disagreed with was you saying the article is FUD and then giving a site that is the opposite of what this article was and saying it is fair and balanced.  You basically just gave a link to the opposite viewpoint which would just be FUD from the opposite side.  Hopefully I'm making myself clear here.   Now I don't agree with everything in the article, there were some good points made and some that I don't necessarily agree with.  Either way, Sling, what I'm trying to say is that you aren't going to get all the facts from any place that is bias to one format or the other.  Bluray.com is exactly that, a site about Blu-ray.  They aren't going to give all the facts and will be bias toward Blu-ray since that is what that site is all about.   So, all in all, this is why I suggest a neutral site for people to see the pros or cons of both formats.   

My point is, Blu-ray.com doesn't produce or allow false information/FUD fly in there forums.If I went in there and said "HD-DVD only has 10 gigs of disk space buy Blu-ray"which would be FUD Blu-ray.com members would be jumping all over my post giving me HD-DVD facts....This is also rains true for Blu-ray as well.Blu-ray.com supports  truth about both formats not allowing misinformation to be the decision  maker for it's members unlike 99.9 sites currently available. The so called neutral sites have great info as well but throw FUD as I'm sure you've seen.

The article has to much false information in it and onlookers should know.

Great info to clear the air can be found at,

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

http://www.highdefdigest.com/

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Back to Top | Comments 1-25 of 43 | Latest Comment | 1 2 Next »

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